Foto-© Thania Rodriguez

Der Spoken-Word-Künstler Antony Szmierek überzeugt in seiner Kunst durch Authentizität und fesselt sein Publikum mit groovigen Beats, die er mit schonungslos ehrlicher, tröstender und humorvoller Lyrik verbindet. In unserem Interview sprechen wir über seine Single The Heron und das dazugehörige Musikvideo, sein kommendes Album, Ruhm, Humor und darüber, dass er letztlich einfach ein ganz normaler Typ ist, der eher zufällig in eine außergewöhnlich glückliche Position geraten ist. Am Ende möchte er sich mit dem „ganz normalen Menschen“ identifizieren – denn genau das ist er selbst, egal wie viele Leute ihn in einem Pub erkennen.

Thank you again for meeting me. Obviously, we’re here to talk about your new single, The Heron, which is out now! Included by a video-
You straightaway said, don’t do anything visual, because we’re doing an audio recording and then I immediately made [handmotion]

For the people reading this, can you describe what you just did?
I sort of made a little pretend bird out of my hands. I don’t know why. It was a visual tick, but it’s heron related. It’s bird related.

Right, right. It’s part of your song?
It’s part of my song. What’s the German word for bird?

Well, funny thing, I’m not…German. So I don’t know. I’m Dutch. Wait, actually, the German word is the same, I think. It’s “Vogel”.
Oh, that’s quite good to say, isn’t it? “Vogel”, I’m basically Dutch now.

Yeah, you are! I’ve done some research about you, and I know that your songs are characterized by your spoken word poetics with danceable grooves and beats, and, as I’ve read, you’ve kind of been catapulted into fame, especially due to your critically acclaimed album Service Station at the End of the Universe, getting to perform at festivals around the world. Funny enough, because I’m Dutch, I’m actually also from Groningen and you played at Eurosonic.
A beautiful town. That’s where you’re from?

Well, technically I’m from Assen, but right now, I live in Groningen.
Oh, you are so lucky. It’s such a beautiful place. Like, there’s a few – you have Utrecht as well. Places that I would happily live in, I think. I don’t know about fame. I think in Manchester, people know who I am very occasionally. People will come over and say “hello” and ask for photos. We’re like five dates in on tour and that’s a very unnatural version of fame, because everyone is there to see you. So you kind of do feel famous.

Do you think fame is a myth, in a sense?
Yeah, especially now. People are famous to a degree. I was on the train the other day and someone recognized me. I was speaking to them and then there were these two little kids, who tapped me on the shoulder and they were like, “I’m sorry, are you famous?”, and I was like “to some people, not to you.. You would not give a shit about what I do at all”, and they were like, “okay”. It’s relative, isn’t it? I think a lot of people in this influencer culture, they do want to be famous and they want to be well known. For me, I want my work to be well known, but I don’t really do that well with being recognized. Actually, I’ve moved away from Manchester-

Because of that reason?
One of the reasons. I was always just out looking over my shoulder, or at the pubs everyone was really friendly, but it just got a little bit intense. So, I have gone to a place where people know me less, which is nice.

Do you think then that fame is a curse or a blessing?
Well, many people will say this about it. I don’t know how many people actually mean it. I do think people are like, „Oh, this is obviously great, I feel really lucky, and I love this.“, but, genuinely, I’ve had a real job. I was a teacher for a long time and I’ve seen what the real world is, and I’ve lived that life for years. Now, it’s as difficult as it gets and the weird side effects of it; I love it. The hour I get to perform at the end of the day when I’m on tour is the best hour of my day. The rest of it, I’m in my head breaking out, I’m trying to organize things; I had a very rushed shower to do an interview. The show, I’m at peace doing that. That’s what The Heron’s about, actually. The song talks about trying to find joy, peace and patience in nature, and the world and stuff like that, and trying to get off your phone a little bit. I think that’s kind of the overall message of that song.

You started off as a teacher, as you said, and it was for special needs children, right?
I was a mainstream high school teacher, as an English teacher, for five years. Then I was a teacher for kids who had special educational needs for three years. So I thought I was a teacher for my whole life. I liked the job. It’s another sort of purpose-driven job. It doesn’t feel frivolous. It feels like it means something. It feels like you’re helping people, then that’s kind of what my show is. Last night, we played in Warsaw, I’ve never even been to Warsaw before. They were really lovely, and there was a guy during the last song crying his eyes at me. He looked really upset. At this moment, I’d gone off stage and gave him a big hug. It really affected me when I saw him crying, because then it’s not about you. It’s not just you showing off. It’s for everyone in the room and it doesn’t really matter if it’s me doing it or somebody else: it’s like you’re providing a safe space. I’m in Berlin, it’s a safe space on the dance floor, at five in the morning, wherever you are. People finding safety in unlikely rooms.

Do you have any other crazy concert stories? For example, how people react, I mean, you just told the story about people crying. Is this how people normally respond to your shows?
We have had it before, especially for the latest songs at the end of the set, which are quite emotional. We do a New Year’s Eve countdown and everyone starts fresh, and we’re talking about political things. We spoke a lot about Palestine last year and Trans Rights: that’s a huge thing. That’s close to people in the band. I think people do feel safe coming to our show, which is quite nice. I try to make every show different for myself. I’m only doing stupid shit, like slamming on things I’m not supposed to or I played a pinball machine two days ago.; there was a pinball machine in the corner of the club and I went over to it with the microphone, everyone came around and I played a game of pinball as I did the song. So, I’m always doing something stupid.

Is that something you just improvise on the spot?
Yes, always. I’m severely ADHD. I have no impulse control. I just see something that I want to do. Unfortunately, I am in a relative position of power, so I’ll just do what I like. That’s fun. Who knows what I’ll do tonight? You never know.

That’s also the fun thing about your concerts, that you just never know where you’re going.
I think so. I think we have a lot of people who come to multiple shows, so, I have this weird, built-in guilt thing. I don’t want it to feel like the same show over and over again. When shows get really big, when you’ve got big LED screens, you have to be a bit more disciplined with it. It’s all timed to the lights and stuff, but I’d never say the same thing in between songs or I never rehearse something I’m going to say between the songs. I think that takes a level of excitement out of it, but it also is a level of it being genuine. So I just try to live in the moment, like everybody else is doing it.

It’s interesting, because you do describe your shows as a communion. It’s a communal experience: Why do you find it important to break that fourth wall? I mean, you’re just jumping around everywhere, as I understand. You also go offstage and be with the people: why do you find that important?
For me, it feels like the natural thing to do. I don’t like the idea of it being like me and them. Also, then, it becomes this “you being observed”, people are just watching you, and I don’t really want it to be there. I want it to feel that everyone is having a party at the same time. The songs mean things to me in a different way, so if I can get in a headspace where I’m also enjoying myself and I am also emotionally accessible and vulnerable, it helps the feeling in the room. I think they look to me for that example and then- it’s from teaching, isn’t it? It’s all from teaching. It’s all the same thing. You lead by example. If I got my eyes closed and I’m sweating and I’m running around and I’m crying, people feel like they can do that as well.

There’s also the fact that it is spoken word, does that enhance that aspect of the performance?
It can be. You can get a message across quite directly. It’s in the name, but it’s sometimes like delivering a monologue or a sermon. The character on stage has actually started to become a bit like a preacher. It’s a lot of very dramatic hands.

It’s a church. It’s a secular church communion?
Little bits of bread and throwing holy water on people. I think [spoken word] is a useful tool. It’s like a good thing to have. Spoken word as well with dance music historically has worked really well, like Faithless and G-Light were doing the same thing. He was the Buddhist poet over the top of the huge trance techno house anthems. It does work. There’s a lot of it; jamie xx has touched on a lot of it recently. Have you heard an album called Headache? It’s by Headache, but it’s Vegan. It’s a producer called Vegan, and that’s like an AI sounding voice, but it’s just poached over music. The thing with my music is when you listen to it on stream, you can be like I could have just stood there with a microphone and a track. That would have been fine, but it’s not.
Obviously, it was a choice down the line. All of the songs start as a poem. They all start as a bit of writing and the song comes after it. On the second album, they are a bit more like songs. I’ve tried to make it a bit more musical with a bit more singing, but they still start as poems. Instead of just changing it and- you have to sort of kill your darlings – with singing you have to take words out that don’t fit a certain melody. With spoken word, you’re allowed to say exactly what you want and that’s helpful. I forget the words all the fucking time now on stage, nearly every time. I just always forget something. It’s impossible.

Do you also improvise new lyrics on the spot?
People thinkm that it’s a cool thing to do. In reviews, people are like: he’s very present in the room, because he adapts, he improvises. I’m just: no, I just forgot the word, I just don’t have a fucking clue. I’m just stressing on the spot: what do I say? What do I say? It’s a horrible feeling. It is a horrible feeling when you forget your words. Usually, when it’s a live show, I don’t really mind if I make mistakes and I’ll start songs again and everything, but when we have to do radio sessions and record things and it’s being on TV or whatever, I find that fucking scary. The things will be recorded forever.

I was also wondering: you were an English teacher and you just talked about your songs starting as poems. Were there literary pieces or writers that inspired your music?
Yeah, that’s still now. I think the way I read them, it always feels quite musical to me; a novel or reading poetry especially feels really musical. You should always strive to really read poetry out loud, even if you’re on your own. It’s quite a shame reading poetry in public because you can’t do that. There’s a lot of beauty in the cadence and stuff like that. Films as well: poetry and literature and film are a huge influence on my stuff. I’m always trying to tell a story. That album, Service Station into the End of the Universe, is kind of a loose narrative. It has a beginning, a middle and end. It has characters in it. It’s a complete piece, you know, it’s supposed to be like a little play. I like that. With this next one, and The Heron is the first single, it’s hard to like – It’s 14 songs on the album and it’s quite hard to pick the one that sums it up, because they’re all different. I think The Heron, musically, maybe is a bit of a misdirection, actually, of what the album sounds like. Thematically, The Heron is the key bird across the album, a key motif.

I’ve always wondered this with all artists, really: how do you pick your first single for an album? What’s the process for that?
It’s really difficult, because it’s a completely different scale. You don’t pick your favorite song. Sometimes those two things line up, but that’s where I started going to other people. We play it to the record label, you play to people you trust and you sort of go, “ which one you think is the single?” Most of my favorite albums, the single isn’t the best song on it, or the singles aren’t the best songs, but you can tell they are immediate. I think, for me, it’s sort of like sending up a flair, a signal. It’s going “this is over here and maybe you’ll like the rest of it”, and it’s really odd. I don’t really know. Wherever we are like in the zeitgeist and stuff like that.: “What do you think people need? What season is it, you know? Is it winter? Do you want to cheer people up?” Our next single is out in May, so it’ll start to sunshine and you think, “what’s going to be played in barbecues and rooftop terraces and festivals?”. It is about timing.

You’ve also dropped a music video and, to me, it was a really cool video. It was like a fever dream situation. How did this idea come to you for the video?
That is something that I’ve always been still really heavily involved in..I write all of the videos and storyboard them. I know where all of the shots have got to be and I think with a music video, you have this opportunity to just go and do a different thing. It can have a different meaning. In that song, the chorus is “you’ll never be alone again, my love” and if you hear that as a song, it’s really beautiful and uplifting. In the video. I wanted it to have a different meaning, so it’s freaky, sort of like you never leave. It’s cool, this cult idea. It’s another opportunity with the visuals to tell a different story and I think not many artists like doing music videos because, well, I’m not watching them anymore. I mean, you watch a bit still on socials, but for me, to allow myself to enjoy them, I have to sort of direct a short film. That’s the way for me to find a way to enjoy.

I also find it very cinematic and because you just said that you were quite inspired by literary works and films and art in general. Were there certain movies that inspired you for this video?
It’s aesthetically – the cult thing, there’s a lot of Wicker Man, which is really helpful. I think in the surrealist thing, like the Mighty Boosh, and maybe in the way it is shot, Wes Anderson. So yeah, maybe Wes Anderson, Mighty Boosh, Twin Peaks in there a little bit. It has a really weird ending where I turn into a Heron: read into that what you will.

It’s up for interpretation, of course. I also thought today “oh, what’s a movie with a bird in it?“ I was thinking of Birdman. I don’t know if that has any influence, because it was this one character that also got chased by his alter ego.
I’ve seen that. It’s great. It’s one shot, isn’t it? The whole thing it’s supposed to be in one continuous shot. I think that’s a great film.

In terms of the themes of that film, it’s about guilt and the way that that grapples you. It is also about fame.
Yeah, that’s a good thing. I’ve never ever thought of that. I’ve seen it twice, so maybe it was a subliminal influence. I want to rewatch that now and try to figure out what I did lift from there. I mean, “The Boy and The Heron, the animated film that came out that I’ve seen, and a lot of people have been like, “is it referencing that? “It isn’t. It’s just the heron is a real heron, like in Manchester where I live, and it became sort of a symbol of when things were getting difficult last year or when it was getting lonely or stressful, and I’d go and walk on my own and just try and be off my phone and just try to calm down. I’d always see this heron, and they just stand there all day patiently and they don’t seem bothered and I just found that really emotional, actually. There were a few days where I was in a really bad way and then the heron wouldn’t be there and then I’d walk around the next corner of the river and it’ll swoop in. It was almost like a visitation. It was looking after me. It was beautiful.

The heron is then something positive, it gives you peace?
Yes, in a way. It looks like it became like a proxy for me on stage. I’m like this preacher thing on stage for people. The heron is almost like a preacher to me. It was just in how it acted and it was just still and calm and patient. I quite liked that. I thought that was inspiring.

Interesting. For the video itself, I thought, because the song is about fame or how to deal with it- or am I reading it wrong?
It’s come from me, so I think the things that are stressing me out in my life are probably around, let’s say fame or success. I think a lot of it is just like a manifesto for other people: stop trying so hard. There’s a lot of things that’s just: be still, just be patient, things are going to work out and believe in yourself. I think that’s the kind of the message that comes from it. It was born out of my own stress with my life changing, but I want it to be for other people and I don’t really think of myself as being famous, but also, most people aren’t famous. So, I want it to be for everyone, it’s more of general idea.

Was this song – and maybe the songs on your next album – were they therapeutic for you when writing them?
Oh, my goodness, yeah. It’s so powerful, I think. I really go deep in the process of songwriting. I think songwriting is magical. It’s genuinely like magic. What it can do for people and how it can help people and it medically can help people. When you tap into writing your own and creating your own music, when you really reach that low state or you have a really beautiful idea or even just singing with people and harmonizing with people and coming up with ideas in the studio. At this time, very specifically with the second album, I have a few more collaborators on there. A lot of the album is written out of loneliness, actually a lot, because I spent a lot of my time on my own, really, with the band, but, started to feel isolated, but I found a lot of community and a lot of joy and love in writing songs. It’s all in there, I think, on the album. There’s songs about breakups, but there’s songs about being in love just sort of like. It’s sort of like a professor for survival, I guess, in like 2026. I hope.

That sounds also quite intense if you say it’s about survival.
We are surviving. It’s very much true. Things are fucked, aren’t they? I want to put out hopeful music. I want to put out music that’s helpful and hopeful and future-facing. Maybe album four will not be like that, maybe it’ll get bitter and I’ll start to get angry and things like that. I don’t feel angry now. I feel like I want to help. I want to encourage people to be happy and then they can help people and stuff like that.

I found that your lyrics are quite campy and very funny at times. How important is implementing that humor into your work? Why do you think it resonates with you and your audience?
It’s a very British, Northern British thing, to make fun of yourself. Humor is a powerful tool. They’re the things that make me feel good and it’s the same to everybody else. You know, music and laughing, especially now going forward into the second record, it is just clear. It is me. Those songs are me. That’s who I am. It’s having a conversation with me in the pub. That’s what it is. It can be funny, it can be really intense, it can be emotional, it can be camp, it can be fun, it can be sexy, whatever. It can be all of these things. I want to be in all of these things at the same time. Coming from a job where you can’t really do all of those things and you’ve got to be professional, it’s really lovely to be able to explore all of those different elements of our personality, actually. I find that really joyous and freeing.

It’s like tearing down social constructs about how you’re supposed to act. As you said, as a teacher, you’re supposed to act this way and you’re just: I just want to be myself, y’all.
Exactly that. I’m more a call to action for everybody else to be themselves. It’s for people who have found their tribe later in life and want a place to feel safe and not to be judged. I think that’s why the shows are so emotional. It’s a world that I can occasionally dip my toe into. I want to be able to laugh for myself and I want to have fun and I don’t want to wear a mask, a metaphorical mask, or hide behind dry ice and visuals and irony. I don’t like irony. I I don’t want to be ironic. I want to be sincere, you know? I don’t want to care about that. I don’t think that’s a good way to communicate with people. I don’t think sarcasm and irony is helpful. I think it’s a shield and my guard’s down and I want everybody else’s guards to be down as well.

I mean, speaking of intense, it is also quite scary to do. Has that process been quite difficult for you to open up? For yourself, but also to then record it on a song, send it out to the rest of the world.
Yeah, in terms of the personal lyrics and stuff on some of the songs, I’m getting used to that, actually. It’s always scary. I kind of have a very high threshold for embarrassment. I don’t really find things embarrassing. I’d rather be like this than the other way, but it is intense. It’s intense performing the songs sometimes, especially feeling a certain way.Last year, I had a lot of things go wrong in my personal life. I went through a breakup, I had to part ways with the manager, which was awful and just lots of awful shit; stuff that I didn’t really need at that time. Then going and performing the songs was really cathartic for me, but also intense and emotional. I cried last night on stage because of the guy who was crying. It made me cry. That’s what I wanted it to be like, what I want to be as an artist.

It’s also very human to relate to other people. I mean, just talking to you, I think you’re a very down to earth person. You’re really trying to just just relate to people. I don’t know if you ever imagined being an artist like this?
Never, never, never, never.

I think that’s also a strength that you never really wanted to fit into a certain mold of how an artist is supposed to be.
I grew up in a working class family, I went to a really quite shit school. There was no drama there. There was no music department. I was never told that I could do any of this. So, it was never a possibility ever. I used to go to shows a lot. I used to consume music and literature. I was convinced that that wasn’t a thing that I actually would even bother trying to do because it’s not for me. It’s for those people who have the money and have all of these resources, and I’m still competing against those people now, really. I don’t want it to be a competition, but still you put an album out and someone on a major record label has half a million pounds to put billboards up and advertisements and sponsor ads and pay influencers to use their music and we don’t have that. So we’ve got to grow it organically and, if it stays the way it is, I’m happy forever. If I can keep doing the tours at the same level, the same size rooms now, then I’m happy because it’s my job. I love my job now, which is music, but it’s also very similar to teaching. It’s just the mid-ground between both of them. I kind of just want to keep this. That’s my fear of it, it just going away, I guess. I feel content now.